ABU BAKAR BASHIR - RADICAL YES, TERRORIST NO

Interview with Ustaz Abu Bakar Bashir

By Farish A. Noor

Ustaz Abu Bakar Bashir, founder and head of the Pesantren al-Mukmin of Ngruki, Surakarta, is perhaps the most well-known Muslim scholar in Southeast Asia today. Following the bombing in Bali in 2002, he was accused of being involved in the attack and subsequently brought to trial and sent to prison. After his release last month, he has once again appeared on the political scene of Indonesia and ASEAN as a major figure in the contemporary development of popular Islam. Despite the accusations that were leveled against him, many Indonesians we met expressed support for the man and skepticism over the trial, arguing instead that the Indonesian government was forced to act against Bashir due to pressure from Western governments including the United States and Australia. Malaysian academic Farish A. Noor recently visited the Pesantren al-Mukmin in Solo and met with Ustaz Bashir himself. The following is an excerpt of the interview (done in Bahasa Indonesia) with Bashir where he talks about the current state of ASEAN, the political conflict in the Arab world, American influence in Southeast Asia and the struggle of Muslims in Indonesia.

Profile:- Abu Bakar Bashir

FN. We have just returned from a demonstration where you and the students of Ngruki were present along with members of the Majlis Mujahidin Indonesia (MMI), Front Pembela Islam (FPI), Front Pemuda Islam Solo (FPIS), Hizbut Tahrir Indonesia (HTI), Partai Keadilan Sejahtera (PKS) and others. When you spoke to the crowd you focused mainly on the current conflict in Lebanon and the aggression of the Israelis. You also criticised the weakness of the Muslim leaders of the world. Why has it come to this? Recently there was the OIC meeting in Kuala Lumpur and the statement they came up with was lame and non-conclusive; why are Muslim governments so scared to speak up and call for united action?

ABB: This is to be expected from them (Muslim leaders). What else can they do? What else can they say? There is not a single Muslim leader today who has the courage and commitment to defend Islam and Muslims, they are all in awe of the United States and other Western powers, and are indebted to them. This is what we call ‘Wahn’; "penyakit cinta dunia, takut mati". Our Prophet warned that this would be the case in the future, that the Muslim ummat would be great in numbers, but weak in spirit - until they are trampled upon again and again.

The Arab leaders and other Muslim leaders in Asia all suffer from this disease called ‘wahn’, this weakness brought about by wealth and privilege, and thus they have become soft. That is why they cannot stand up to the kafirs and they cannot be firm in their statements and policies. Their love for the world and all things wordly (duniawi) means that they only think of themselves. Arab leaders worry more about making money from the profits they get from oil and gas that they turn the other way when Lebanon is being destroyed right next to them. Their neighbours are being murdered, but they only make calculations for their own benefit.

This is why I have always said that it would be better if Muslims were poor. Oil wealth has been a curse on us, made us weak and docile. Look at the Afghans, during the time of the Soviet invasion. They were among the poorest Muslims in the world, yet they were sustained by their faith in God, and God alone.

Muslims must believe that all power, success and victory comes from God alone.("Hanya Allah Maha Esa yang menentukannya".)

If God wills it, they will win - no matter what the odds may be. The Prophet defeated the enemies of Islam even when he and his followers were small in number. Why? Because they had the ultimate power, God, on their side. This is the real superpower. The Afghans did not have sophisticated weapons like the Soviets did, but with their faith they defeated a superpower. That is when the kafirs feared us Muslims, when we had discipline and faith, when we were strong in our hearts and not weak in our stomachs.

This jihad spirit (semangat berjihad) is not in the OIC now. Show me an OIC leader who can talk about jihad. Not even the leaders of Malaysia or Indonesia have this, so how can we do anything? Your leader Badawi is weak (Badawi itu luwes, lemah orangnya.)

The only Muslim leader who has some spirit left is your former leader Mahathir Mohamad, who called for a boycott of US and other Western currencies. He was right, when he said that Muslim countries should abandon the US Dollar and trade with their own currencies instead. Why should we use the Dollar even when we trade among ourselves? Even though Mahathir did not openly call for jihad, at least he said something. This was the least we could have done. ("Sekurang-kurangnya kita bisa lakukan begitu, memboikotkan matawang Amerika itu".)

But the leaders of the OIC could not even accept Mahathir's proposal, yet they talk about respect and honour. What honour have we got left, when nobody is listening to us?

FN: Some would argue that this weakness stems from the fear of being seen as being 'too radical'. I have problems with this concept, for I believe that being a radical is not necessarily a bad thing. After all Nelson Mandela, Kwame Nkrumah, Jomo Kenyata, Ghandhi, Nehru, were all radicals in their time; and they did not compromise in their opposition to colonialism, imperialism, racism and apartheid. So why cant we be radicals now?

ABB: You are right, but the weakness does not come from the millions of Muslims in the world. They do not mind being radical, they have no fear to speak out and to protest and to jihad. But the weakness comes from these Westernised co-opted Muslim leaders who just want to look good in the eyes of the West and Western media. They are scared that the BBC or CNN may call them radicals, so they remain soft instead.

The problem lies there, with the Muslim leaders, not the Muslim masses. The Muslim leaders swallow the advice of the Western powers and bodies like the IMF and World Bank, even when it is bad for their countries and they know this. They are the real hypocrites (munafikin) and traitors to Islam and Muslims. Yet as you say we should not accept the idea that being a radical is a bad thing. Any movement for change will be radical. Our Prophet was a radical too- he fought against the injustices of his community and challenged the feudal order of his society, so they called him a radical. So what? We should be proud of that! ("Kita harus bangga dengan 'radikal' itu!".)

We should be proud that our Prophet came into the world with the message of Islam to change it for the better, and not for the worse, or to keep things as they are. What use is revelation or religion if it doesnt change anything?

Today the Western powers and media want to domesticate us like sheep, to keep us tame and domesticated. But why are animals domesticated? So that they can be slaughtered in the end! (Binatang itu dijinak-jinaki supaya disembelihkan nanti!)

That is why they use the label 'radical' in the way they do, to keep us scared and to keep us under control. This is true for our leaders, who have all been domesticated and trained to speak the way their Western bosses want them to.

FN: So where do we get our role models then?

ABB: The only model to follow is pure Islam ("Islam yang murni"). Because Islam in its original form was tough and hard ("tegas dan keras"), not weak and pliable. Islam is fixed, stable, ordered and disciplined, and so are Muslims.

If we return to the real practice of true Islam we would be much stronger and that is when the kafirs will fear us. That is why we need to uphold the Shariah and return to real Islam. But the West is trying to weaken Islam from outside and inside. They attack our people and invade our countries from outside, and they weaken us from within with ideas like secularism, liberalism and democracy. This is all designed to contaminate our pure Islam.

Why do we Muslims have to learn from them? Islam is perfect, there is nothing to be added or changed. We have shown that Islam can rule the world perfectly for fourteen centuries, and during this time of Muslim power we did not borrow ideas like democracy from others, so why do we need to learn democracy from them now? As long as Muslims were confident (in the past) they could not be defeated, but now we are just puppets ("boneka semuanya").

This is why we are calling for the upholding of the Shariah here in Indonesia. We demand an Islamic state, and not some form of Islamisation of society. We want the state to be Islamic, with Islamic leaders who have the courage and will to implement the Shariah in total. There is no other way. ("Nggak ada jalanan yang lain".)

Kuliatul Mualimin al-Islamiyyah (KMI)

Pesantren al-Mukmin Ngruki

Surakarta

11-12 August 2006

For full transcript of interview click here